Net Authors: ?Gladiatrix? book review and responce

[Ted Mark]

I found this amazing review of Gladiatrix and a chain of eye opening comments on D Skirts.
I felt it needed re-posting here because we followed the adventures of publication here to some degree. It is an eye opening notice to all net authors:

Ted Mark
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NOTE: what follows is an unedited selection of a discussion pertinent to us from another board. Neither I nor this Board's Management bear any responciblity for its content or veracity.

I myself am very concerned with the issue of Net Rights and MrCage and JohnSmith2007 and SEGA, amongst many others here, are in my opinion REAL AUTHORS and novelists and their authorship and glory by right belongs to them.

I myself have no way of judging the substains of the concerns stated below. Can any of you help?


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from: www.DeadSkirts.com :: View topic - "Gladiatrix' book review

joseph



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 318

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:21 am** *Post subject: "Gladiatrix' book review


“Gladiatrix” book review


As I think some members here sometimes like to read GOOD books – I want to recommend the one I read last days, especially I can’t remember if here was a word mentioned of this one…

Russell Whitfield | Historical Fiction | Gladiatrix

Yes, it was issued for English readers in early 2009, but I can get it into my hands only now and…. WOOOOOOW!!!!

Some time (about 10 or more years) ago I found on the web the site with this (or actually: very similar) article….

Gladiator Gals | Socyberty

…and my first thought was “What a perfect motif for a great book!!!!”….

…and now – speaking shortly - I can say, that my long term dream after all those years at least come true!!!! It’s with no doubts one of the best books I read last years…It’s simply the GREAT ONE!!!!! Pain and torment, hope and despair, friendship, love and sex, joy and sadness, need for freedom and adiction to the arena, trust, treason and lust for revenge – the life and the death - all these extremely emotions and situations are present here in this brutal, but – in my opinion – great describing gladiator’s life story with its rises and falls…

Is this bloody story? – yes… Is this brutal one? – yes…. Is this pornographic? – NO!!! Even if there are some sex scenes, I don’t think gladiator’s life in ancient Rome was too much romantic one – but there was some place for sex too…

Yes, somebody can say some characters are better or worse created, somebody can like or dislike them or say they are brash ones, somebody can say there are not too much historical events and descriptions etc… - but this is the story created and written the way (in my opinion) – let’s say: in some moments you can almost feel the bloody arena’s sand under your feet…

Of course, this is NOT ‘fetish’ book - you can find there all, what you want for great adventure/historical reading….Actually – at some moment I found myself horrible shocked (NOT pleased or excited - simply shocked and sad!!!!) after the demise of some female character…. I don’t think, the ‘gladiator’s’ book can be written without some fighting scenes… The arena fights (there are about 10 of them) descriptions are simply unbelievably great (and bloody)…. For the book illustration perfectly fits some of Alistair Leslie’s poser pictures, some of you probably knows (and likes) – and some of them were used for official (?) promotional wideo of this book…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AicIj...has_verified=1

The first sequel – or actually: the continuation of ‘Gladiatrix’ story - is on it’s way (it will be available at March, 15, 2011) – I simply can’t wait for this book…..
j
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Sandi



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 4078

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:07 pm** *Post subject:


Joseph,

This book is NOT a surprise to me! Matter of fact, I've known it was coming, in some form or another, for 5 years.

Do you know why?

In the flourishing years of Yahoo Groups, one of the most popular in terms of story-writing and role-playing was named "Gladiatrixs".

It was originally run by an English woman, who later had to drop out of the community because she was spending too much time in it, and immersing in her Character too much.

It was then taken over by another English woman......YES, Joseph, her real name.....was Sally. And she was married to a Russell. And they had a daughter named Samantha.

I knew she would do this, and part of me is excited to read it, and part of me is somewhat angry because we all were 'used' years ago, to an extent, for a project these two had in mind from the beginning. I'm not resentful, yet those of us who MADE that site with our participation are of course not compensated nor, I am certain, referenced in any way.

That's all fine and legal, I'm sure, because there is no copyright on Internet site talks and things posted, I would assume. If there is, some of us may choose to make an issue, though I am not one of them.

All credit to them for their cleverness in providing more 'input' and motivation for their book.

Sally, or Kassandra as she was known at the Group, played a Spartan General, a former Gladiatrix now in favor with higher level Romans.

She was NOT into the 'death' parts of 'our' fantasies at ALL, one of the very few women who played there who was not.

I would never reveal these things before, but now that this book is out, I feel no bond of secrecy as to what I learned about certain people at that site.

I will avoid providing real pictures of this Sally that I possess. But I know her, and spent COUNTLESS hours both in private and public in talking about things, and in role-playing, and in participation in TWO six-month long interactive stories that about 20-30 of US created ad lib at that site.

One was a mythical Rome vs. Amazonia conflict where the Romans 'invaded' Amazonia. We each chose a side to play on, and invented a totally fictitious Character and Character Name.

Sally headed the Roman side. All we knew when we began was that the Romans would 'win', because allegedly SHE (and she may be as into this as Russell, I would not know now) was such an expert on Rome and their methods of war and how phalanxes and archers and all were deployed an in what sequence during battles and all of that.

Sally wanted it kept as 'real' as possible. She endured the rest of the women, who were all into the fantasies in some way or another.

We loved 'dying' in the Arena, fighting against each other, again ad lib. We were superb at painting word pictures.

But her influence was always there to 'keep it a bit real'.

Why? Now I see the 'why', and I suspected it all the while and knew that even when Yahoo suddenly eliminated the Group, that she had EVERY single word 'saved' and captured for 'some' future endeavor that would make money from OUR efforts.

We were there for fun. She was there for profit. So that does 'hurt' a bit years later to find out my suspicions were correct.

But that takes away NOTHING from the 3 years or so of INTENSE fun we had there. Even then, over 6 years ago now, I guess (since I joined DS in May, 2004 after those Yahoo Groups were all closed down), there were over 4000 Members at the Group we all called 'G'.

Most of the Players were women, but men were free to join in and some did.

But our 'fans' were ecstatic at anything we did. The praise came rolling in, effusive and real.

Because we were most excellent at CONVEYING that REAL feel....of the Arena....of Rome.....of the life of a Gladiatrix....the training.....all of it.....

So I am excited yet obviously a bit perturbed that we were 'used' as I thought we were being used.

I regret none of it, because that was the most exciting and very deeply real expression of emotion of our fantasies with which I've ever been associated.

These women were INTENSE....lol.

Yet interestingly, in the six month story, not one of us had our Character killed off.....even though in side-bar posts we would conduct unrelated fights using the same Character name we used in the Main Story, as we called it.

But 'Kass'....or Sally in real life.....was the one who knew the most about all these realities.

Now I understand why. And I think it's somewhat understandable that my first reaction is "WOW, how REAL the Internet really IS" and yet....."darn them, they used us for their own profit gain later".

I knew it then, and of course would not have acted differently because we had fun there.

And provided them with input they used for their book.

If anyone does not connect the Internet with Reality, this Book Production is proof that this new world is also very real.

It will make those people very rich, probably. Some of that, again, I cannot help but resent, because of course none of this was ever told to us, as the 'ultimate result' they intended.

Anyone here who was in that Group will dispute nothing I've said here.

Thanks for the notification of the book. You may even be involved with it or one of those who was at 'G' back in the day. Probably not, but I'm just acknowledging the possibility.

One problem I have with 'real' relationships on the Net is that I know that some are only playing games and will use 'input' for some future endeavor of their own.

But, so be it. The years were fun. And someone will profit mightily, partially due to the efforts of about 50 other people who poured their hearts and Souls into what we shared there.

She later created another Website that might still be around, or that they might have eliminated now that the book is out...called Gladiatrix, or something similar.

Of course, most of the true research Russell and/or Sally did had nothing to do with the "G" site, but I simply know that they gleaned a lot from what many Others contributed there.

Thanks again for the information, and an amazing tie-in from the Internet to very real life.

Sandi
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*[TBC]

[Ted Mark]

[conc]

joseph



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 318

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:37 pm Post subject:


Well. Sandi…Your answer was very descriptive and interesting – but… with all my respect I have for you (an this is true, not some lie!) – I don’t think, that all you said here would be spoken publicly (sorry, but that’s only my opinion…) and…well – I can only be very regretful now, this great site you mentioned is gone for good and it’s content is lost for eternity for all ‘gladiatrix lovers’ as – for example – me….

But still - as I said previously - this book is making my old dreams come true (and I'm sure, if I could find the group you mentioned, I would say the same words, but some years earlier...)

j
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Sandi



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 4078

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:02 pm Post subject:


Joseph,

I understand your point of view about 'going public' with what I know, and I admit to being conflicted and somewhat emotional about it right now. As I said, I will not produce the pictures of the real Sally, but somehow I am uncertain as to how I feel, that's all.

I never compromise a 'confidence' with someone that I have developed on the Internet, and MANY of my 'relationships' have turned into wonderful sharing with real people about much outside of fantasy also. I learn and have fun with each person with whom I have shared.

So you may well be correct, but since I feel that they are 'going public' with aspects in that book that we at the Group had NO intention of ever being made public, I feel 'used'.

Thanks for the reply, I respect and understand your answer.....and, again, you may well be right about questioning even what I have revealed publicly about 'them'....but they used me, and I feel that was unfair because we knew nothing of their intentions of using OUR input...for their profit......LOL.

But when I went to the website of russell that you mentioned, I already knew, and confirmed by clicking on the links that detail his wife and daughter's names also.

This is not the first nor the last time this type of thing will occur, but I hope you understand why at least I am 'uncertain' as to how I feel, and why I feel 'used' at the moment, when we had no idea our words would ever be reproduced for Profit by Others who told us nothing of their intentions.

Sandi
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Sandi



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 4078

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject:


one more thing, Joseph, since I am unable to 'Edit' and have to make a new post...

the irony is, as I laugh out loud here, that my very attention to this will direct more people to your thread (I put up a thread referencing this at the Main Forum also...lol).....and ultimately cause some here to buy their book and increase their profits!

And yes, I will likely be one of those who buy it or at least read it!....I LOVE that time period or 'Rome' for many, many reasons, and the fact that it fits many of my most INTENSE fantasies just makes it more exciting.

So I hear you....lol....and will be excited to read the book that was made partially from things I said at that Group and things many Others, male and female, said and contributed.

We contributed unknowingly to their book. And now I've brought more attention to your thread and their book.

LOL!

All is good, Joseph. I just felt I had to reveal some things, and maybe I am wrong to do so....though I still do not think so....LOL.

Thanks again, we obviously share a lot in terms of loving to read of that era in time and probably the greatest and longest lasting Empire in history....for good and for bad, yes.

But it was an amazing time period of both the heights of greatness never achieved in so many areas, and the depths of depravity that eventually killed the Empire, in other areas.

Sandi
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wolfmi



Joined: 18 Aug 2010
Posts: 217

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:42 pm Post subject:


Hi,

I will give the book a try, because the theme is very interesting for me, although I know, that it is not historic (to call it "Historical Fiction" is a little bit wrong leading - it is pure fantasy with roman namings, but that is not bad).

I can see no wrong in "using" a fetish gladiator-fight board as research and playground for a book with a female gladiator theme. If the impetus for actually writing the book came through the work on the board than I would only congratulate without any hard feeling.

I know that authors often have problems in their private sphere of friends and families, because they usally use elements of the normal life in their work. Of course every private talk, every private occasion and every private acquaintance can and is often "used" as material in professional writings.

That this author and his wife obviously were very interested in gladiator roleplay is for me a very good sign for a serious study of this theme.

I can see, that this book might have a great strenght in using "fetish elements" more than historical elements (because the writer has obviously no scientific knowledge of roman history and is not interested in continuous precision regarding of historical facts - at least the blurb had a lot of historical inaccuracies and even mistakes - and a member of the Julian family as proconsul of the province asia (NOT Asia minor!) is hurting the historian in me).

For me, who has studied roman history and someone who is very intersted in the female fighting aspect, it is necessary to turn off the historian and turn on my emotional side in reading this book. But I have good hope, that I will like the book and frankly, the discovery that the author has made "research" and found inspirations on a fetish roleplay board sounds the more promising for the book.

wolfmi
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joseph



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 318

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:49 pm Post subject:


Well Sandi…. Here we have two different cases…

First one – I started the thread with review of the book I really liked – and still like…– and I’m sure, some other people here will do as well… And – for sure – this is the only one book I know in this genre…. Actually – one of my thoughts while reading was “Hmmm… The guy had visited some quite interesting sites in the past for sure” – wink!

The second one – the case you touched… Well… Yes – it was for sure emotional reaction… I can’t say, how many of yours roleplaying was used there (maybe some ideas, maybe some parts or reactions - or maybe they were the inspiration for writer?), as I don’t know this site (and that’s a real pity, as I’m sure I would be a huge fan of this place – and YES!!!! – maybe at least some of your stories/actions would be saved into my own library, not fell into the ‘dark hole’ where they are now?). I don’t want (actually: I can’t too, as I don’t know the all details) to stand on one or another side, however… well… I think I could imagine - at least a bit - how you could feel right now… However, if you can’t change the situation (as it looks so), maybe you can try to take a look at that from the other side – from the side of those, who don’t know your story, and only read the book… and are happy at least they found something that completely fits into their interests (NOT fetish ones, as the scenes from the arena are not exciting ones… actually they are horrible…). Even if it was created the way you said, it’s still really great book – and I did not change my opinion…. As for me it will be even more interesting – and a bit personal - when I know, there is some ‘part’ of somebody, whom I know a bit from the virtual reality (that’s to you, Sandi!)…
Well… All in all I think some day you’ll take a look inside this book (against all odds) – to fully know at least are you there or not (well… There is some character a bit fitting for you - I'm curious am I right?– wink!)
Actually - The book was issued about 2-3 years ago and I still think, every gladiatrixes fan should to take a look inside… as it is really worth it…

j
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joseph



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 318

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject:


Upppss...Well... It took me some time to create my answer for Sandi, and at this time the board was changed a bit - LOL!!! - but I agree with you Sandi - for me the sentence 'let's remember those good times, that were gone for good and will never back" means a lot too....

Well wolfmi - I agree, the term 'historical' is a bit not exact, but... this is the story for reading - let's say- with feelings, not with the historical knowledge, if you know what I think...
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Sandi



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 4078

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject:


I will make you a promise, Joseph, that I will indeed read the book (I must, of course) and reply to you here in the public domain about any specific parts that were taken from what 'we' gave them back at the Group.

And I surely agree with both you and Wolfmi that the book is to be read and enjoyed on its own merits. When I hear Wolfmi state that it is not a historically accurate book but historial fiction, that suggests to me that there may be more of 'us' in that book that I even thought...lol.

Sandi

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Sandi



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 4078


New postPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:24 pm Post subject: Reality re the Internet and Our Fantasies...Please Read! Reply with quote
I post this at the Main Forum because it is appropriate for Female Fantasy Death.

I'd like every Member to view a thread at All Topics by Joseph, entitled 'Gladiatrix'...and read my comments.

4000 of us gathered at a Yahoo Group named 'Gladiatrixs'. It was the most intense 2-3 years I have ever spent interacting and writing and sharing the INTENSE fantasies of the Roman Arena.

That Site Owner has unabashedly used our efforts and captured many of them and written a book from which that person will profit handsomely.

It is a superb example of Internet life, and directly related to our fantasies.

Most of us there were being totally 'real' in our expressions and contributions.

And someone else was merely using us for their own eventual profit gain. I am certain the major parts of the book Joseph references are from true knowledge and research, but the point is that I feel somewhat 'used' because they intended this book all the time, and it was the purpose of what they tried to get from Others of us who will not be compensated, as legally I'm sure we need not be.

But some of this reality 'hurts' a bit....for more, please see Joseph's thread and my initial comments.

And they are neither the first nor the last to use the Internet and other unsuspecting people for their own profit gain.

Such things may even lead to new 'laws' eventually, about what can be reproduced without someone else's permission. None of us know that yet, because the Internet and this form of communication is still in its infancy.

Obviously from my comments here and at that thread, I am a bit conflicted and still feeling the initial 'hurt' of being used. But I saw this coming, and am not surprised at all.

Sandi

[agraf74]

Ha! Before you go on reading, please be warned: I created and typed this words all by myself, so they are my property, and you must always use the "Quote" function when copying them in this board, and you can't copy them anywhere else without my WRITTEN permission - which of course I'll never grant... This is called (C) Agraf 2010.

I was not a member of "Gladiatrixs", which by the way is either misspelled, or an original error. The Romans did not coin a word for ?female gladiator?, and the few references to women in the arena are made by their stage names (the only ?photograph? we have of such a pair is Achillea and Amazona), or by their specific arena class (essedarii, venatores, provocatores, lanista, chariot-driver...), either unisex words (lanista) or convenient plurals. Gladiatrix is the singular feminine form derived by scholars, and hence the plural, Gladiatrixes. But I digress...

I know Sandi from this board (whom I respect, as well as her opinion), and I knew other women from other boards, like the AmazonFighterUK, and "Amazons - Lethal Female Combat" (Carrie and Becky's). With one of those ladies, who accepted to cyberfight a female character I based on a real person, I co-wrote one story that I published at Carrie's Amazons site, after revision, and with Erythra's permission (real name withheld on her request). I felt honored to be accepted by "Erythra", who rejected men as fight opponnents, but I was open with her about my true gender from the start.

Were those cyberfights copyrighted? As open messages in a board, like telephone calls and postal cards, yes - to the extent that anyone can, even without making an effort, to eavesdrop on you, or glance through the open card somewhere. And it's hopless to try to protect that sort of thing from being acted upon, ?copied?, etc. The story posted in full at Amazons, yes, that was, and is copyrighted. I would hate to see anyone reprinting it as their own, or without my permission. However, today I tried to access it, only to confirm that (a) the site went into the Necrobabes group before 2008, and (b) the site closed in 2008. If I had not a copy of it, now it would be lost even for me...

Copying someone's materials, or ideas, is alright, as far as we acknowledge being indebted to that person's work. In a board like those, or this one, with people changing nicknames, it's harder to do, but even so it can be managed. The question of ideas, and inspirations, that Hollywood professionals pass their lives registering at the Copyright offices, are bullshit as far as I'm concerned. I've seen films ackowledging being made ?based on the novel by Such&Such?, and you read the novel, and there's just a vague resemblance to a page of the 300 pp. of it! Others are blatant remakes, and using similar titles, and they don't even bother with a thank you in the final credits...

I read Gladiatrix, and was in doubt if it had written by a man. Some passages are so... feminine, in their approach to the subject - of love, of battle, of strength. I decided that it had written at two-hands, but did not gave it more thought, until today, when I read Sandi's reaction. Gladiatrix is definitely a book more than inspired by Whitfield's wife, and it is probably a good book because so much of it - namely the action sequences - were created by her.

I'm not in a position to know if there was copyright infringement, and I hope there was not. Even Sandi declares she is hurt, but confused, self ?conflited? about it.

Let's take 3 conclusions of this:

1) Never enter a cyberfight if you're afraid to get robbed of an excellent idea.

2) Always keep a hard dic copy of what you sent out, as web boards tend to disappear suddenly without notice, and pay sites (like Necrobabes' Amazons) are no different.

3) Keep your contributions flowing to this board, and acknowledge your respect for the prolific and authentic authors like Cage, as it's the only way you have to pay for their work... (I mention no other, but there are a few here I read regularly. I'm sure they know Cage towers high above them. Others may be as fierce, and lusty; but he plays with situations, characters, and words, like no other.)

[Jessikafights]

Am away on holiday with limited internet, but just to quickly say that most of us who post on these boards don't do so for any profit, but to share a kinky fetish (and to hopefully have the odd compliment!). In that vein, I've often used, modified, merged and changed ideas of others for some of my own posted fantasies (mostly with acknowledgement, but regrettably not always). But if others' steal one's stuff for profit & don't even acknowledge it, that's going a little far!

I remember joining that Gladiatrix site only towards the end, but didn't have much time to play myself. In this case, hard to tell how much was 'used' from that Board for the book under discussion - maybe it was mostly an inspiration?

Ciao
Jessie